Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/25/1996 08:08 AM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 438 - RECORDING: INDEX DOCUMENTS BY LOCATION Number 0048 CO-CHAIR GREEN announced the first item on the agenda was HB 438, an act relating to the indexing of documents recorded in the state recorder's offices; and providing for an effective date. REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE, Sponsor of HB 438, said the bill would require the recorders office to list the recordings not only by grant and grantee, but also by location. He said this would be helpful in cross referencing information with various programs such as the airborne geophysical survey. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said there were changes to the fiscal notes and said the Recorder's Office fiscal note was decreased to zero. He said some money is required for the Information Resource Management (IRM) section of the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) for computer reprogramming which will allow location information to be put into the computers. He said the fiscal note for the first year is $90,000 comes out of program receipts, not out of the general fund. He said the Recorder's Office generates more program receipts than it expends. Number 0232 CO-CHAIR GREEN said if money is being lost from the general fund, the additional receipts collected from the Recorder's Office, wouldn't that be shown as (indiscernible due to committee packet on top of the microphone) program receipts rather than a straight zero fiscal note. Number 0300 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said this would not be true with the fiscal note from the Recorder's Office because they have shown a zero fiscal note. He said, the fiscal note from the IRM relating to computer work will require some money. He said HB 438 will not create an increase or decrease in burden to the Recorder's Office or an increase in the cost of filing fees. CO-CHAIR GREEN asked if this issue had been misunderstood in "January." Number 0333 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said the Recorder's Office had projected a 5 percent growth in the Recorder's Office. He said, after discussions, the office saw that HB 483 would not cause the natural growth in demand as a result of the bill. He said it was determined that the growth would occur with or without HB 483. Number 0382 CO-CHAIR GREEN said after the first year, there is a modest computer use fee of $10,000. He asked if the expense the first year involved the associated costs of putting the location index into the past records. Number 0404 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said, under HB 438, this process would not be retroactive. He said the expenses the first year involve programming costs and additional time in educating people. He said the continuance costs would involve upgrade of the system. Number 0465 CO-CHAIR GREEN expressed concern, if HB 438 only went into effect from the effective date of this bill, of whether it would take several years for the benefits of this bill to be utilized. Number 0485 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE clarified that this statement was correct. He said the issue could be examined to determine what resources and computer manpower would be needed to add this information into past records. He said the only method for location retrieval has been through the Cardex system which is manually written and a voluntary service. He said the state of Alaska has not addressed the need to keep location indexes. Number 0557 CO-CHAIR GREEN asked if it would be possible to retrieve information if you knew the tract number, and asked if it would be just as easy to retrieve that information as if you knew a persons name. Number 0590 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said the location index would provide the public with an idea of where that information is located. He said the centralized location will list the page and volume of where to find that information. Number 0667 SHARON YOUNG, State Recorder, State Recorder's Office, Division of Support Services, Department of Natural Resources, testified via teleconference from Anchorage. She clarified that the location index is something that the Recorder's Office is already doing and has been doing for decades. She said it a computerized system and operated by a third party contractor, who provides information as a courtesy. She said when volume levels have increased, this service has been viewed as less important or less critical than meeting the statutory mandates. She said the system has developed many gaps and omissions in the form of location indexing. MS. YOUNG said the grant or grantee index is the official index and is maintained on a daily basis. She said, over the last year or so, the Recorder's Office has also been maintaining the location index on every reported document. She said the office is able to do this service within the existing workload levels. Number 0812 MS. YOUNG referred to the earlier fiscal note and said it assumed that the workload levels would increase and staff would need to increase as well. She said "that is true, but that is not something that is a directly related to the fiscal note and that is why we did revise the fiscal note." Number 0831 MS. YOUNG referred to the IRM fiscal note regarding the associated computer work with HB 438 and said it is for an intra-departmental system which is also tied to the resource information. She said this is something that the Recorder's Office does not integrate with at the present time. She said this ability is necessary for her office, as well as the user group, to be able to utilize the other resources available in the DNR. She said the fiscal note is separate from the recording system.. Number 0894 REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT asked for information about the geographic information system which is currently being updated. He asked if that system will accomplish what the committee is trying to accomplish in HB 438. Number 0909 MS. YOUNG said the geographic information system, a system maintained by the department, is a separate data base from the recording index system which is maintained on the mainframe of an independent contractor. She said these data bases do not integrate information currently. She said the IRM fiscal note is for the necessary programming for both systems to access information from each other. Number 0960 MARY NORDALE, Attorney, Birch, Horton, Bittner and Cherot, Past President, Alaska Miner's Association, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks. She said HB 438 is the result of a series of meetings that began last spring in cooperation with the Recorder's Office, the Division of Mining and Water Management (DMWM) and the people who maintain the geographic location system. She said these discussions began as a result of a decrease in the budget for the DMWM. One of the programs that the DMWM had maintained for a number of years was the Cardex system, a hand posted system for maintaining geographic information on mining claims. She said, as the meetings progressed, it was learned that the state land records are not maintained in a modern fashion. She said the mining community is concerned that, if the Cardex system is eliminated, there is no way to accumulate the historical information which is a necessary component when developing mines. Number 1056 MS. NORDALE said the geographic information system, which the DNR is attempting to install for the maintenance of all land records, is terrific and useful to various industries including mining, forestry, oil and gas, and other resource based industries. She said this system won't work unless a requirement is put in the statute that states location indexes must be maintained. She said this mandate would allow easy integration between the Recorder's Office and the Land Records Management system which the DNR is attempting to put into place. Number 1100 MS. NORDALE said discussions also revealed that the third party contractor, who maintains the grantor or grantee (indiscernible), has done a program that does not work with a state laboratory records. She said if the legislature enacts HB 438 and grants the DNR the funds to do the programming which would integrate these two systems, the state will get some control over the land and land management systems. She said HB 438 is essential to resource industries in the state because it helps retrieve land titles and descriptions. She concluded by saying that Earl Bipline (ph.) supports her testimony. Number 1178 STEVEN BORELL, Executive Director, Alaska Miner's Association, testified via teleconference offnet. He said he is speaking for the association and that they support HB 438. He said the proposed changes would improve the efficiency and flexibility of the data recording system. Co-Chair Williams joined the committee meeting at 8:27 a.m. MR. BORELL said he sees HB 438 as one way in which the system can be improved. Number 1269 CO-CHAIR GREEN closed testimony and asked the committee if they had any questions. REPRESENTATIVE KOTT said it appeared that HB 438 was a way in which the state could update the antiquated computer programs. He then asked if there had been discussions with the Recorder's Office as to why this change could not have been included in their capital budget request rather than having a separate bill which mandates this specific thing. Number 1299 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said he could follow up on this question, but said that although the Recorder's Office is already doing the location information there is nothing that mandates that service. He added that a capital grant could be possible. Number 1346 MS. YOUNG said the location index is not just a software upgrade problem. "Two separate data bases and what the IRM fiscal note is addressing is only the information within the department, it is not going to change the structure or in any way affect the recording indexing system that the third party contractor maintains. What this does is take back up information that the department itself has and attempts to integrate that with other data bases in the department. So, we are not changing the recording system itself in any way." Number 1419 REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN made a motion to move HB 438 with attached fiscal note and individual recommendations. Hearing no objections HB 438 was so moved from the House Standing Committee on Resources.
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